Doomsayers, Look Up

The first couple responses to my last post have kind of taken me by surprise, much in the same way my sponsor's coldness has. I'm not sure why. I guess I might think about it some more, but that isn't what I want to say here.

I do want to address a few things about the seeming concern about my meeting attendance. First, I wonder if my sponsor is that worried, wouldn't it be a better tactic to actually return my calls and/or perhaps take me up on my invitations to meet up for lunch to talk? For one thing, I have made it clear to her I am not rejecting AA - I am still a very strong believer in the program. I do believe I am practicing its principles in all my affairs - perhaps not to the literal level that some would wish me to, but I believe in the true spirit they are intended. I do think there will be times in my life where I will very much want to attend a meeting. I also think that sitting in meetings, day in, day out purely out of fear, guilt and habit is not doing myself any favors. Hearing the same people say the same thing every day was beginning to be boring. I wanted to spend my time living life, not hearing people stuck in thoughts of constant not drinking.

Second, I am not going to tell anyone else how to live their lives or what is best for them, although I think there are more inclusive ways to get healthy than solely with AA. For me, I needed my therapist, my husband's family and my friends with the catalyst of AA to get me through the necessary changes. I don't think I am done changing for the better. But as my therapist said to me not too long ago, therapy was never meant to be forever. I believe the same is true for AA meetings. You use the tools you learn in these places, sometimes you need refreshers, but the idea is that you grow. If I make myself go to AA meetings just because I believe that is what I am supposed to do and not because it is what feels right to me, I am stunting my growth.

Anyway, I wish I could hang with sober people without being beat on the head with meeting rhetoric. There is so much more to life than yammering about drinking and not drinking. I am more open to life and the stuff that I used to hide from through my drinking, so I think it is better to not avoid experiencing it by devoting all my time saturated in an AA-focused life. I'm just sad that it seems my AA buddies seem to think that means I am excluded from their gang.

Hey, I just want to be a better, sober person. I have said all along, there was something about many people in the meetings that did not have things that I wanted, that it was one of the hardest "sales" of the program to me. That so many of those in the rooms reminded me of beaten puppies and seemed more defeated than surrendered. What I have been coming to realize more and more as I recover is that I have what I want, I have been cultivating it for years. I just didn't believe I deserved it until I finally put down the drink and found my self worth. And, yes, AA has been and will continue to be a part of that discovery.

Well, I am sure those of you who think this spells doom still think so and those of you who are not pro-AA are still firmly there. But maybe some of you on the fence can understand my perspective and know that I'm alright.

Comments

[Mary (MPJ)]

I have mixed feelings on the meeting thing -- on the one hand, I think I'd leave my husband if he stopped going to meetings. It's a sign to me that he's serious about his recovery. On the other hand, I haven't been to a meeting in years -- I found them helpful at first, but then too triggering. I felt it was healthier for me to do yoga, meditate, write and spend time with family.

[Suzanne]

Actually, when I read your post yesterday, I was struck with its tone of being a little self-centered. I have been sober more than 12 years. I don't go to meetings for me. I go to meetings to help others. It's my duty -- after all, why would I let a program save my life, and then not turn around and try to help someone else? Helping others is, ultimately, what keeps me sober.

When I was three years sober, I stopped going to meetings. Long before I had the urge to use or drink, I became paranoid, angry, judgmental, and sure that no one cared about me. When I tried to go back to meetings, it seemed no one wanted me there and that they were judging me. Truth be told, I was judging them, and the voice of alcoholism was loud in my head. It wasn't until I reached out my hand and asked someone if I could help (In that case, they were new and I gave them my number and offered them a ride to a meeting) that my life changed, and suddenly everyone seemed to love me. What really happened is that I changed, they didn't. I reached out to help someone else, and my perspective began to clear.

[MiseryMarketing]

Hey Hotness,

Im not trying to jump yer poo or anything. Whatever you choose to do about your level of AA involvement I hope it works out well for you. I do know people who have faded out of AA and stayed sober for years. But I know more that have stumbled into relapse. Many relapsed within a year but there were plenty of solidly sober people that lasted years. I would say 60% of those people who had solid sobriety and full lives ended up relapsing because they fell into some prescription pill problem somehow. The other 40% just ended up drinking a glass of wine at a dinner thinking it would be different or they went through to much pain to handle. Anyway I've been doing AA for 12 years and I've been through the month after month of hating every word that was spoken in meetings. Ive gone to meetings with 100 people and could tell you all of the 11 people who would speak. Usually this happens when I dont feel like I have anything to share. When I put my 2 cents in I usually fell differently about the meeting since at least I have tried to add something to the meeting. But all in all I have so many friends in AA. I get to do so many things outside AA because of those associations. If you live in an area with any decent sized population there really is no reason you cant find people you appreciate in AA and find newcomers who you could help as well. I have good friend in AA who when they talk it makes me cringe because its so bad but outside the meetings they are great people. Obviously I not the perfect picture of mental health. You certainly seem more balanced than me from what I read. But I know that I havent taken a drink or illegal drug or abused any legal drugs in 12 years and I know legions of people who came before and after me that since have and it has destroyed their lives. I came to AA when I was out of ideas about how to live drunk or sober. It concerns me when people come to AA and stay sober for a few years and start to get their own ideas about how they are going to live and stay sober. So no matter what I will still be yo friend but if I have to 12 step you over the internet I will. I made a deal with God as I understand Him 12 years ago and I be scared to go back on that hand shake. Still Your Ninja, MM

[Syd]

Judith, I don't know any answers on this. It seems that I go to meetings and hear something new every time. I do work with others, am sponsoring, am a GR and am going to work with Al-Ateen. I like giving something back. When I least think that I need a meeting though is when I probably do need it most.

[kel]

I dont care how you do it, as long as you are all good. No judgement here. Now or ever.

[Krishanna]

I've been reading VR now for a few months. I remember my early sobriety (read the first 5 years) and I was one of those who really needed meetings everyday for many years. But...when I didn't need meetings anymore, I didn't need them anymore.I still needed the 12 Steps but I didn't need meetings. the 12 Steps were never designed to be a lifestyle. For me there came a point, somewhere between 5 and 10 years, where meetings were not where I needed to be. I had spent many, years cooped up smoky, dark bars. I needed to be living life's on life's terms and not cooped up in a smoky church basement. That wasn't the way I wanted to spend the rest of my sobriety. When I quit going to meetings regularly, I lost a lot of people I thought were friends. I got a a lot of doomsday advisers too. What people don't seem to realize is that the program is not in the meetings. In fact more non-program BS is in meetings these days than not. The program is in the book. The program is designed to work with or without meetings, if you work it. Now, I don't know whether you're bullshitting yourself or not. That's between you and your higher power and maybe your sponsor, if you want to include her. It doesn't really matter. Time will tell. I will say, it requires more focus to work a 12 Step program without the support of meetings but it can be done. Just remember H.A.L.T. and if you find yourself there, get to a meeting or call someone. I've found we can get through most shit if we just don't... Best~ Krishanna

[MiseryMarketing]

Krishanna, so where do you carry the message to new comers? Are you going to treatment centers or detoxes?

[postpaleo]

Doomsayers, ya gotta love em. You ever wonder how many stay in the rooms and still pick up again? Lol, wonder no more, it is lots and I know you saw it too. You would have seen more and some have been there for a long time. Ask them, they can give you a count to the day. It's like a false sense of security. The warmth of covering your head. Sit around and masturbate each other and whisper sweet nothings in each others ears. The odds are probably about the same if you stay in it or not. But I would guess if you have the courage to fly on your own, you've already have a leg up on em. Just as long as you learned your tools well and they are always being fine tuned. That's part of the tool kit, ya know. If it really works, you can take it anywhere.

I carry my room with me, always. I don't need to gang up on anybody. That isn't the way it should be done and it never works. Safety in numbers is a lie and a very dangerous lie. A very sad lie.

Yes Dorthy it sure isn't Kansas and those that live there are a cult and give themselves a name. They don't trust anyone that isn't from Kansas, or Oz. The wizard comes with a price and he gives out courage, a heart, and brains. You always had them, you just had to see it yourself. You had to be motivated to find home. :)

So, is this journys end or beginning? I like to think of it as always smelling the coffee. Today is precious, the now is exciting, even on the bad days. Sometimes I think the best news I ever got was so bad it would make some people cry forever. What a wonderful dose of reality. So much I took for granted. Just another step and a good one. Yeah that doctor was a doomsayer. Lol, what a joke, but it sure didn't feel very funny in the start. Did it. What it does take to turn ones head around and take a good long hard look, amazing sometimes.

I see life. You do too and you are beautiful to my eye. Butterfly, you left a flower. I will too. If I had a message that might be it, but I don't.

(please insert that L word)
postpaleo

[Guilty Secret]

I have no advice, no experience, but just wanted to say that you seem pretty strong and secure and in tune with your own feelings. As long as you keep mindful of the risk you might slip, I think you're going to be ok. And I find your story very interesting too, by the way :)

[Slutty McWhore]

Why is it that people involved in 12-step programs can often be such sanctimonious shits? I'm not - strictly speaking, anyway - an addict, but I know quite a few people who attend AA or NA. I think that 12-step programs are undoubtedly wonderful things but, all too often, my friends will come out with judgemental shit about my life and my lifestyle (couched, of course, in the language of a "caring", "concerned" friend) . At first I listened, and felt really bad about myself, but then I realized that they needed to see me as fucked-up or a victim of false consciousness to feel better about themselves. It seemed to annoy them that I could do certain "unhealthy" things from time to time whereas they couldn't - well, without spiralling out of control.

There was a point in my life when I probably drank too much (and I still definitely can't hold my liquor very well) but I tend to see that as a symptom of depression, rather than full-blown alcoholism. My therapist at the time, of course, told me I was in the beginning stages of alcoholism, and advised me to do the whole "90 meetings in 90 days" thing. I instinctively felt that this was very wrong for me and told her so, but she was having none of it. I was in denial blah blah blah. I eventually went to some meetings, and again felt completely out of place. I just didn't feel comfortable using the AA structure to view my life. Not out of shame or anything, but it just felt 100% wrong for me (on the other hand, I felt MUCH more comfortable at SLAA meetings. If I'm addicted to anything, then it's emotional situations, rather than substances)....Fast forward to this year, and I no longer feel depressed and (surprise, surprise!), no longer drink too much. Sure, I get drunk occasionally, but I'm much happier with my life, and don't have the same desire to drink.

It really pisses me off that my therapist decided I was in the beginning stages of alcoholism, because I felt that she was trying to fit my life into a neat therapeutic model she'd learned in college. There are many wonderful people in 12-step programs but there are also far too many people who, like her, use the program too rigidly and who refuse to accept that there are other ways of getting sober.

I think what Judith described about her life in this post sounds wonderful, and it seems so mean-spirited to judge her for that or call her "selfish". Perhaps, yes, she should continue going to AA meetings to pass on the help that was given to her in the beginning, but there are also other, non-AA, ways of "serving", which are just as beneficial.

Good for you, Judith! You sound great, girl!

[timibe]

I had a really fantastic therapist once. We talked about how my family always told me how selfish I was. She pointed out to me that I was not selfish as they had told me. She showed me how they used that to manipulate me to do what they wanted me to do. She also said that as I was recovering, I was becoming "self-ish", and it was a good thing. I do not believe that we can be completely selfless and continue to be of service to others. It just isn't healthy. We have to do what feels right for ourselves and nurture ourselves or else we will have nothing to give to others and we will resent the hell out of always doing for others. I think the goal of recovery is balance and some people take that service thing way out of balance. Service is absolutely necessary, but charity starts at home.